请ATC王者荣耀玩家邀请码们谈谈ATC SCM100 及50,有何区别

ATC SCM100SL AT Loudspeaker (Hi-Fi+ 80) | Hi-Fi+
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In the once smoky, now merely claustrophobic world of professional audio you don’t come across many passive loudspeakers with separate power amps. I’ve visited one exception which proved the rule and that was Abbey Road where B&W were sponsoring the monitoring, but in most instances you get a pair of nearfield monitors on the desk and a bigger set of speakers further away, and both will be actively powered. It makes a lot of sense in that environment because they take up less space and offer more control, and when you are playing at high level all day you want a monitoring system that can take the punishment without sharing the pain. The studio and the PA world is where ATC made its name and where it continues to have fun, designing custom made systems for concert halls and the like. The guys running ATC, Billy Woodman and Bob Polly, give the impression that they don’t give a monkeys about the domestic audio world. But contrarily the company keeps on building variations on its pro themes for us end users and the SCM100SL AT is one of those. It’s a floorstander, or tower version, of the stand mounted active 100 litre three-way that has been in the range for quite a while and which also exists as a pro model. The tower design gets rid of a less than beautiful stand and produces a more substantial looking speaker, real wood veneer extends nearly to the ground where it has a black plinth which accepts spikes or glides if you’d prefer not to nail these heavyweights to your polished wooden floor.
The actual drive units are fixed to a baffle that’s also in black and adds another 34mm to the braced 18mm thickness of the cabinet. This provides an edge for the grille to slide onto, an arrangement that ATC recommends you use when listening because the grille is designed to eliminate diffraction at the sharp baffle edges. ATC makes two the three drive units in this speaker at its facility near Stroud in Gloucestershire, only the tweeter is brought in. ATC started out as a drive unit maker and has continued on this path for the independence and flexibility that it provides.
The tweeter is a 25mm soft dome with a neodymium magnet while the mid is ATC’s classic 75mm dome, a key driver in the company’s range and a fundamental reason why these speakers are so revealing. Like the bass driver it has flat, edge wound OFC wire in a short voice coil that operates in a long magnetic gap for maximum control. Another control factor is the use of massive motor assemblies/magnets combined, in the bass driver, with ATC’s Super Linear rings which sit between the main magnet and the voice coil, the latter suppress eddy currents in the voice coil which allows for increased impedance and in sonic terms a reduction in third harmonic distortion. This is probably why pianos have more body, attack and dynamic range than is usually the case. It’s impossible of course to separate what the drivers contribute from the amplifiers in an active loudspeaker, this like the rest of the Tower range has a 350 watt class A/B tri-amp pack on its back and an electronic crossover between input and amps. The direct connection from power amp to drive unit is the major advantage of active loudspeakers, the amps are tailored exactly to the requirements of the speaker and there are no crossover components between the two. The other side of this coin is that active crossovers are more complex than passive ones which makes it harder to build truly transparent examples. If you want real world dynamics however there is no other route this side of the full range horn that can do the job, and no full range horn that I’ve heard has the bass extension on offer from the 12inch bass driver on this speaker. This monster is the reason for the overall girth of the SCM100SL, that is girth in terms of size and prodigiousness in the bass, if you want to feel the earth move this is the device to achieve that end.
Despite their size they are remarkably easy speakers to accommodate inasmuch as they are not as fussy about placement as the average large passive design. Specifically you can put them quite close to a rear wall and, room shape allowing, this doesn’t result in exaggerated bass. The front firing port helps here as does the fact that they are voiced for transparency and precision rather than flattery, a situation that can give the impression that they are tonally lean. But play a few more pieces and you discover that they merely reflect the original balance with greater accuracy than usual and that some recordings have considerably more low end on them than others. This point gets to the nub of what these speakers are about, the differences between recordings, this rather than fidelity to an oft non existent absolute is what all hi-fi should be about. With purist recordings of acoustic music it’s possible to have some idea of what a high fidelity result might sound like but in all other cases there either is no absolute sound or it’s nearly impossible to know what it is. In a studio recording for instance what you have is a construct made largely on a computer, it might have original instruments on it but the end result is what the producer, engineer and mastering engineer create from those originals. The nearest thing there is to an absolute sound with most contemporary music is what the mastering engineer heard in his studio, a place that has pretty alien acoustics by domestic standards and uses monitors that are more like these ATCs than most domestic loudspeakers. So the scale of difference between the sound of recordings is the best way to differentiate audio components even if this is at odds with aspects of tonality or timing. And on this front this speaker is supreme, the degree of exposure is so great that you have to be very careful that you are not just discovering the limitations of the partnering source and preamp.
But with a Townshend Rock 7 turntable, Funk FXR tonearm and Van den Hul Condor cartridge extracting information from a slab of vinyl it’s difficult not to get into the groove so to speak. The music shines through in no uncertain terms thanks in part to the ease with which these speakers can play at higher levels, classic Led Zeppelin always sounds good but it sounds a lot better when reproduced with an amp and speakers that are able to unleash it at the appropriate volume without struggling to do so. This not merely a headbangers speaker which is fortunate because I don’t go in for that sort of thing so much these days, equally engrossing is the degree of realism they can impart to a fine acoustic recording like Keith Jarrett’s Jasmine. Here the speaker’s ability to reproduce piano comes into its own by placing Keith and Charlie (Haden not Watts) in the room, the piano’s heavy structure providing a solid foundation for the music.
Imaging doesn’t always seem like a strongpoint with these speakers but again it becomes apparent over time that a lot of material doesn’t have pinpoint stereo information but that which does produces solid images that stretch both wide and deep. It’s a recording thing again, a multitracked rock album from the seventies is not likely to have been made with this factor very high on the agenda but a contemporary jazz one delivers a precise image in the context of a vibrant sound.
They can also conjure up complete concert halls with LPs that in many respects sound ancient, Alfred Brendel’s 1968 rendition of Beethoven’s Piano Concerto No. 4 is a good example. Here the sense of the hall’s scale is palpable, it’s clearly an enormous space thanks to the low frequency extension and control of the loudspeakers. You cannot achieve this precision at low frequencies with a passive system, you may be able to produce a more refined sounding mid and top but there will always be the question of whether that refinement is a product of some smoothing factor in the amplifier, cable and loudspeaker.
These full scale monitors are from the warts and all school of transparency, there is no sweetener at all so if you like a clean, refined sound it will need to be delivered by the recording and source. This is the way that it should always be of course but rarely do pure hi-fi companies have the balls to deliver it with as little compromise as ATC.
TECHNICAL SPECIFICATIONS
Tweeter: 25mm soft domeMidrange: ATC SM-150 s soft domeBass: 314mm SL doped paper
Active filters and overload protection.
6 year warranty.Finish: any veneer to orderMax SPL : 115dBCrossover Frequencies : 380Hz & 3.5kHzConnectors : Male XLRFilters : All activeAmplifier Output : 200w LF, 100w Mid, 50w HFCabinet Dimensions (HxWxD): mmWeight : 68kgPrice: ?11,614 per pair
Manufacturer: ATC, Gypsy Lane, Aston Down, Stroud, Gloucestershire. GL6 8HR.
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单拿及ATC时我最喜欢的两个品牌------关注下ATC100及50----外观真是传统到酷毙了:loveliness: , 有请ATC玩家们谈谈ATC SCM100 及50,请大家说说有何区别?
1,100/50的主动版是否搭配了前级更好听(有哪些好选择)???
2,被动版的100及50功放上的最佳搭配有哪些???
3,100及50个适合多大的空间???
ATC SCM100
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:134 :134 :134
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7.1CH, 积分 7756, 距离下一级还需 244 积分
我有新版的落地被动50,,,当初没选择100就是因为50只比100便宜1w多点,,很多人因此上了100,而我却人为既然差价这样小,肯定厂家是有其道理的,我就选择了50.
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7.1CH, 积分 7756, 距离下一级还需 244 积分
在前级的选择上 基本就是arc 5se&&ear912& &6010d& & 势必超30ss 2代& &an m6mk3&&还有马克ml32
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7.1CH, 积分 7756, 距离下一级还需 244 积分
功放我是从性价比和通用性考虑的,上的是pass x350.5,,如果前级够力 350.5基本也就推的7788了,要想更好那就可以上600.5&&xa160.5.
别的品牌 能推好的很多 但性价比就不可爱了,,,有米就上402e& &波大&&按德隆 马克33h 等等
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7.1CH, 积分 7756, 距离下一级还需 244 积分
50适合25----30平&&100适合30----40吧
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原帖由 小猪冰冰 于
17:54 发表
我有新版的落地被动50,,,当初没选择100就是因为50只比100便宜1w多点,,很多人因此上了100,而我却人为既然差价这样小,肯定厂家是有其道理的,我就选择了50.
原来冰冰兄已经入手50啦,为何不选择主动版加前级呢?是否可是讲讲听感上与scm40与同级单拿的区别?
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原帖由 小猪冰冰 于
18:02 发表
功放我是从性价比和通用性考虑的,上的是pass x350.5,,如果前级够力 350.5基本也就推的7788了,要想更好那就可以上600.5&&xa160.5.
别的品牌 能推好的很多 但性价比就不可爱了,,,有米就上402e& &波大& &...
ARC 5SE加pass350.5也正是在下所想搭配50的“价廉物美”之选,呵呵!{[
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原帖由 小猪冰冰 于
17:54 发表
我有新版的落地被动50,,,当初没选择100就是因为50只比100便宜1w多点,,很多人因此上了100,而我却人为既然差价这样小,肯定厂家是有其道理的,我就选择了50.
猪兄何不上几张美图让在下解解馋,哈!{[
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原帖由 小猪冰冰 于
18:03 发表
50适合25----30平&&100适合30----40吧
我在魔都,房子是大问题,所以以后升级atc估计没戏了,所以就xp10+250.5不折腾了。发财了就士毕草一套推q1退烧,密闭箱对房子要求还是低点。
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原帖由 光影故事 于
15:34 发表
单拿及ATC时我最喜欢的两个品牌------关注下ATC100及50----外观真是传统到酷毙了:loveliness: , 有请ATC玩家们谈谈ATC SCM100 及50,请大家说说有何区别?
1,100/50的主动版是否搭配了前级更好听(有哪些好选 ...
光兄怎么新一年又开始“痒”了啊?{[
CD: DCS Puccini+Esoteric G03X,Krell Evo 505,Sony SCD-1, Sony HAP-Z1ES...DAC:Chord QBD76. BD:Sony PS3. AV: Pioneer LX56,Marantz 6005 前级/综合:Krell EVO 202,Marantz PM11-S1,DA&T A38, Devialet D200
后级-Pass X600.5,Mark No436, Krell EVO 402, 400,
前置- ProAc R4, Wilson Maxx 2, JBL 4338 ,MBL 101E, German Physiks Borderland, ATC Concept 6, ATC 11, Elac 244/247.中置:JBL Array880,环绕:JBL C
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原帖由 casablanca 于
00:00 发表
光兄怎么新一年又开始“痒”了啊?{[
不痒不痒,换个品牌学习下,哈!{[ ~对了问下卡兄,看台湾定价,怎么ATC100比单拿C2II低不少呢???:101
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7.1CH, 积分 7756, 距离下一级还需 244 积分
原帖由 光影故事 于
18:06 发表
原来冰冰兄已经入手50啦,为何不选择主动版加前级呢?是否可是讲讲听感上与scm40与同级单拿的区别?
不选择主动版就是因为 在那么小的箱子里面放一个功放,功放可能不咋样,影响低音的表现不说还担心今后的维修,一个出事就都不能玩了。
另外,还有一个原因,那就是想以自己最大的能力把atc给玩尽,,,,
最近打算出350.5上 160.5或600.5试试,
单拿我没听过,不好比较,
我以前就是40,当然50比40好出很多,从单元上看就是馒头 50用的是150s 顶级,40是150.
高音40用的是很一般的廉价货,据说成本也就几十元,50用的西亚斯的顶级高音,
低音 40是6.5寸的&&50是9.5寸的&&只看这数据就知道差别有多大。
家里都是胶片相机 无法上片哈,,,,
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刚好上个月去代理听了50主动版,音源是emmlabs直推,没有接前级,带去的试音碟有马斯内领袖,罗西尼弦乐,勃拉姆斯第1钢协,舒伯特即兴曲等.
代理的服务态度很好,很可惜听音房正在装修,暂时放在AV展示房听,面积约有40平米,且有大量吸音材料,中高频的密度与延申有点不够..
对比另一家的贵丰大菠萝+scorpio cd推单拿380,只能说各有特色.
100主动版和150价差不是很大,建议光影兄还是直接上150吧:lol:
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原帖由 小猪冰冰 于
09:30 发表
不选择主动版就是因为 在那么小的箱子里面放一个功放,功放可能不咋样,影响低音的表现不说还担心今后的维修,一个出事就都不能玩了。
另外,还有一个原因,那就是想以自己最大的能力把atc给玩尽,,,, ...
冰兄,坛子里有用30.5推40的,所以你用160.5推50应该足够了。pass的甲类还是相对比较高班的,甲乙类的高端相对其他品牌的就差点。
40的单元确实差点,不过高音也要百多元,另低音是不算悬边的7寸,相对其他喇叭可以算8寸。
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原帖由 小猪冰冰 于
18:02 发表
功放我是从性价比和通用性考虑的,上的是pass x350.5,,如果前级够力 350.5基本也就推的7788了,要想更好那就可以上600.5&&xa160.5.
别的品牌 能推好的很多 但性价比就不可爱了,,,有米就上402e& &波大& &...
X系强调清爽和速度瞬态,XA 是锦密和厚润,风格取向不一,看猪猪的听音喜好和搭配需要来定:lol:
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原帖由 小猪冰冰 于
09:30 发表
不选择主动版就是因为 在那么小的箱子里面放一个功放,功放可能不咋样,影响低音的表现不说还担心今后的维修,一个出事就都不能玩了。
另外,还有一个原因,那就是想以自己最大的能力把atc给玩尽,,,, ...
也许兄的担心是多余的了,被动版的ATC看来够兄玩的了,不过折腾的乐趣倒是多了许多,pass160.5等等也要奢侈了,主要是再加上前级价格上个人感觉太不人道了,呵呵!:loveliness:
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原帖由 bigwires 于
10:07 发表
刚好上个月去代理听了50主动版,音源是emmlabs直推,没有接前级,带去的试音碟有马斯内领袖,罗西尼弦乐,勃拉姆斯第1钢协,舒伯特即兴曲等.
代理的服务态度很好,很可惜听音房正在装修,暂时放在AV展示房听,面积约有4 ...
多谢分享,现在也就向大家学习学习,如今看来等换了大房单拿atc都需要的,年底前环境,线材及避震的调整让我的的C2II系统正发出前所未有的好声音啊,另外喇叭机器等等都煲的差不多了,听得自己都被感动了,呵呵!{[
ATC的话个人看好主动版,省下的米够买绝对优秀的前级来弥补主动版功放的不足了,当然也许被动版玩起来会多很多乐趣,呵呵!:loveliness:
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原帖由 倾听 于
10:56 发表
X系强调清爽和速度瞬态,XA 是锦密和厚润,风格取向不一,看猪猪的听音喜好和搭配需要来定:lol:
真要是160.5的话,50还不爽爆了啊,哈哈!{[
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OCTAVE RE290
Clearaudio Concept MC
交易0 分威望2989 点收听数听众数QQ居住地海外 泰国买家信用卖家信用在线时间460 小时相册帖子日志记录好友主题分享注册时间最后登录阅读权限10积分7689精华0UID175198
7.1CH, 积分 7689, 距离下一级还需 311 积分
50是ATC的精髓。B先生说的。
交易0 分威望706 点收听数听众数QQ买家信用卖家信用在线时间695 小时相册帖子日志记录好友主题分享注册时间最后登录阅读权限10积分7756精华0UID189479
7.1CH, 积分 7756, 距离下一级还需 244 积分
下面转一个台湾烧友写的心得,,,
與Proac Response 4相比,非常有趣.
SCM50 TSL的價錢差不多就是Response4 的價錢.
不過卻剛好是半對Response 4.
對Proac 有些瞭解的人都知道,它有一對EBS,就是Proac 版本的ATC SCM50.
後來把EBS來個圖騰擺法,就誕生了Response4.
我非常喜愛Response 4,但空間擺不下.
目前又買不到EBS,所以在這情況下就買了SCM50 TSL.
當然只有半對的SCM 50TSL 整體規模感,音場高度皆不如Response 4.
但因為相對來說單體只有一半的SCM 50TSL 好驅動的多,所以低音量感很容易出來.
不像Response 4那種難推到較人吃不消的脾氣,
用一台210w/ch的mbl 8011s就可以推得相當不錯,細節,厚度,音場及質感兼具.
中音自然是用上了3&凸盆單體的ATC最精華所在,難得在招牌的濃密聲底下,比舊款的SCM50爽朗不少.
高音是SCM50TSL比舊款(或一般版)最讓人驚豔之處.
所有人都知道ATC SCM50 不可能換個大些,漂亮些的箱子就賣兩倍錢.
SCM50TSL的高音滑膩細節十足.
難得的是以前在ATC 上著墨較少的高價器材高貴感,
除了與新版SCM50,100一般,用上了Seas Excel 銀線圈高音,
最重要的是,重新設計的分音器,使它的高音讓人心醉不已.
我認為這部份不但遠甩開一般版SCM50,也已超過使用Scanspeak 的Response 4.
不過我目前評估的結果,ATC SCM50TSL 要超過新版的Response 100還力有未殆,
但可以與身價相同,同是80萬台幣上下的的Response D80一較高下,
D80體型及單數目佔上風,但SCM50 TSL 的單體及箱體素質勝一疇.
有更大空間,要更大音場的選D80.
喜歡更濃一點的聲音,空間小一點的用SCM50TSL.
交易0 分威望706 点收听数听众数QQ买家信用卖家信用在线时间695 小时相册帖子日志记录好友主题分享注册时间最后登录阅读权限10积分7756精华0UID189479
7.1CH, 积分 7756, 距离下一级还需 244 积分
正說中我心中的想法.
SCM50TSL 其實高音量感及延伸已算足夠,只比我以前用的Elac Spirit of Music稍暗一點,卻比我另一對喇叭Spendor G550明亮.
若是舊款書架式的SCM50,一定是加超高比較好.新款則接近一個剛好的點.
但我用了mbl 前後級,本來就是高音比較軟調的,所以整體搭配的結果,若以100分為平衡標準的話,目前大概在90左右,還差一點點.
這陣子我反復聆聽的結果,95%以上的表現都讓我滿意,就是在放一些空間感著稱的音樂時,還是會懷念Elac Spirit of Music那種迴蕩在空氣中的餘韻,
這是4pi最強的地方,SCM50TSL 敗得心服
加超高音要很小心,我的喇叭只有85db, 再加上高音量感已算足夠,只是增加殘響及空氣感,
一個弄不好高音就過量.
所以效率較低的4pi是個選項.我倒是考慮新款的4pi Plus.
另一個選項就是Tannoy 的ST50.
看上ST50的原因,倒不是因為便宜.
最重要的就是它低至14kHz的分頻點,再來就是可以從效率最低可從85db開始.
而ST100的分頻點在18kHz,我是懷疑加上去我到底聽不聽得出來.
ST200呢?89db的效率,太高了.
交易0 分威望706 点收听数听众数QQ买家信用卖家信用在线时间695 小时相册帖子日志记录好友主题分享注册时间最后登录阅读权限10积分7756精华0UID189479
7.1CH, 积分 7756, 距离下一级还需 244 积分
ATC的聲音不論新舊版,我算是頗熟悉.
SCM50與EBS聲音不太一樣,主要應該是高音單元的差別.
再來就是EBS的分音器應該是不同於SCM50的.
使用新版銀線圈Excel單體的SCM50 TSL,
在鋼琴觸鍵時的爽朗清脆,是以前在用Vifa高音單體的時代難以想像的.
以前鋼琴高音的觸感是SCM20~SCM100較弱的地方.鋼琴型體大而厚,但不清脆.
弦樂的擦弦聲音,細微之處相當清楚,以前小提琴很大一把,也很濃,但有些大而化之.
現在弦樂齊奏除了仍是一大片一大片的,還可以看到細細的紋理.
原本我一直認為ATC的高音沒有攻擊性而耐聽,但是不甜.
現在發現居然ATC也可以有歐陸高級喇叭(英國不算&歐陸&),如Penaudio那種甜味.
正如Stereo Sound說的,SCM50TSL聽起來比舊款&年輕而爽朗&.
至於中低音,因為落地式箱體之故,低頻厚重之外,延伸也好多了.
We Get Resquests中,Double Bass 一顆顆渾圓飽滿充滿彈跳及衝擊力,
中音當然是ATC的招牌濃密肉感,這不必多說.
簡言之,SCM50 TSL 30th 把原本的SCM50頻寬拉開,解析力增加,多些精緻及甜美.
再加上美麗的外觀,就是訂價整整貴一倍的原因.
與舊愛Elac樂魂比起來,退步的是樂魂那360度的高音可以呈現一個很大而高,充滿包圍感及餘韻的音場.
即使我認為ATC SCM50TSL的高音已在凸盆高音算是佼佼者,
畢竟單一高音比不上Elac 的Jet +4Pi, 此非戰之罪.
這方面即使是用上了Dynaudio 頂尖T330D單體的Confidence 5,恐怕也難敵樂魂.
總體來說,以近台幣80萬的訂價,315萬日幣來說,應該是物有所值,
但即使得過2004年Stereo Sound 的COTY,我仍不敢說它超值.
這價錢的強手太多了.
交易0 分威望706 点收听数听众数QQ买家信用卖家信用在线时间695 小时相册帖子日志记录好友主题分享注册时间最后登录阅读权限10积分7756精华0UID189479
7.1CH, 积分 7756, 距离下一级还需 244 积分
中等音量稍大一點,但不算很大聲.
就我的聽感,嚴格的說,ATC我是覺得中頻有一些輕微的隆起,讓人覺得聲音格外飽滿.
所以在聽這種Jazz 音樂特別過癮.
樂魂感覺則是相當平坦.
ATC有一點槌擊的飽滿快感,樂魂以前我認為這方面是很棒的,但輸ATC一些,不過不多.
低音量感是SCM50TSL稍勝,但樂魂延伸比較低.這是我用測試片試的結果.
二者在32Hz都有很豐沛的量感,但25Hz時,樂魂比較大聲.
整體說來,中頻表現是ATC佔上風,但兩端延伸樂魂好些.
看到上面這種形容,許多人可能會誤會ATC SCM50TSL 30th還是以前舊款SCM50那種濃厚黏稠偏暗聲底,
其實SCM50TSL 已經是相當全面的喇叭了,正如我前面說的,它的表現像是傳統的ATC 與Wilson Audio的快速精確,有某種程度的融合.
至於樂魂呢?
與我以前用過的許多喇叭比起來(如Dynaudio Confidence C2,S3.4),樂魂算是厚聲的了.
這部份倒是與一般認知,Elac是清亮稍薄的聲底完全不同.
在談完之前,我要暫時下一個有趣的結論:
ATC SCM50TSL 30th不是傳統的ATC聲底,雖然它保有了ATC的所有優點.
Elac Spirit of Music也不是一般認知的Elac聲底,但它一樣也保有了Elac的所有優點.
這兩個品牌的喇叭低價產品聲音是背道而馳,但在接近頂端的產品線,改進了自家中低價品的缺點後,反倒有不少程度相似.
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ATC SCM50TSL 30th----台湾烧友说的是30周年版,是不是签名版的???听说普通版与签名版有不小的区别???
Dynaudio C4II
OCTAVE HP500SE
OCTAVE RE290
Clearaudio Concept MC
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